pretty useless for newbies..
pretty useless for newbies..
pavelo6543
Posts: 4Questions: 1Answers: 0
ive been struggling for the past year or so to initiate a single datatable with filter options etc - but i guess im useless and everyone here knows something i am clearly missing - i was totally unable to understand a single thing from the documentation (yeah i saw how to connect it to db and how to include your demos but no where do you people show how i can use the library from start to finish in numerous way - if you think that 10-15 k users form a world of about 90 million developers is a good cut - then keep it up the same way -cdecanyon for example has over 750k monthly sales but i guess you believe it is better to go to a very small professional sector of users rather thenn try to make 1-2 full tutorial...i know i would love to see some a "bit" more detailed guide for newbies with benchmarks so i can actually know which type is better for me - and trust me when i say your clientelle will grow expediently if u do nut i guess you already know that.... -i for instance i bought over 15 datable solutions from codecanyon and else where or at least you an call them similar crud solutions from codecanion at a total of 549 $ in one week - just because i simply cannot / dont understand how to use your framework /app or whatever it is in a given site! documentation is awful -and i think you should work less on marketing and just a bit more on the docs -if it that simple why not build some full length docs - so thousands of users like me buy you product / support you in other ways? i'm pretty wealthy so money isnt an issue (i own several large companies and small buisness in israel) but how can invest in something i simply cant get to use???..and failed to find a single web app already using it on github so i can have some sort of starting point- i guess that's why the low number of users (you've sold around 250k in 5 years? 50k per year is the lowest ive seen - one of my groceries sell twiice that in a week! hopeully ull take this advice in a good way and use it to better your self - or of couerse u can get insulted and block me etc - but ask yourself this - at what point in life do you want to succeed if im an end user - and i'm seriously telling you i dnt understand how to freaking use you framwork due to 0 actual docs - go to the support section and take a look - try to look at it from the eyes of a newbie in js - and tell me you get anything... - absolutely useless if no newbie guide.....i'm trying to build a web app based on meteor using your library - but found it close to impossible....well i'll keep searching...
Replies
i mean all this feedback in good way - so please dont get offended! - what wouldi t cost you to put up refrence project in github or make 1 or 2 videos explaining how to use the library in other ways - for example include it into the numberone blogging platform - wordpress? or use it in anfular apps? well i really hope u do that some day...the project has been around for a very long tie but still no idea how to use it..
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback! Feedback is always welcome and I'm not the sort to just ban you for posting your thoughts on the software because it might not align with my own. Indeed much of DataTables' development has been shaped by feedback, so thanks for taking the time to write it up.
The first thing to say is that DataTables is a software library aimed at software developers who are familiar with Javascript and typically some basic server-side scripting to get data from a server. We aren't aiming at teaching new programmers how to get started with web-development. There are far better resources available for that than we could ever hope to do.
To that end, DataTables' documentation is not designed to teach fundamentals of programming in Javascript. Instead its about how to use the API and initialisation options. For example, I feel that the installation documentation does a decent job of explaining the HTML required, how to include the DataTables JS on your page and then how to initialise the table. That's the basic starting point for any DataTable.
For more detailed options the reference is available and fully searchable.
You are right that we don't publish any videos at the moment - that is something I'd like to address in future. There simply hasn't been time to do that yet. In terms of an example project, our scratchboard shows a trivial example.
Without question there are things we can do better - filtering being one of them! Its a difficult process maintaining a library the size of DataTables and unfortunately it takes time
.
Allan
Hi all,
I react on both pavelo6543 and Alan.
As I understand, pavelo6543 asks for a 'DataTables for Dummies', which is fair enough. Also fair enough is that DataTables made the choice to aim for another audience.
But Datatables also have to ask itself how dummies become newbies and how they then become experienced developers. Like me, after a few days working with Datatables for the first time I went from eagerness straight to hate.
And that my dear DataTable people neither of us deserve this, not the newbies and not DataTablers.
So let's take a look at a live example shall we?
I converted an already existing table to a DataTable table. It ook me over FIVE!!! days. Five days is way to much for any plugin, app, program, etc. So what's wrong here, even if we take my mental (dis)abilities into account.
I also find it very very hard to find some decent documentation, especially on basic questions.
So I joined the forum and wrote a near-rant, which 'sounded' almost exactly like pavelo6543's ;-)
A very kind person (Kevin) also told me that it is expected to already be a developer with basic knowledge to use, or at least understand DataTables. He also kindly pointed me to JS bin and another website; I wasn't alone anymore.
Alan stated that the documentation is not designed to teach fundamentals of programming in Javascript. I didn't get the feeling pavelo6543 was saying that.
Besides this, remember that the documentation uses different languages in one script, not trivial to everyone. It would probable help if you explain way better what step to do in what language.
If you want a table do you start by a HTML page? A Javascript script? In that script in Javascript? In jQuery? What? Where? How? Why?
Which brings me to another question: how come that this experienced developers presumably already had the right knowledge to use DataTables? Were they born with that knowledge?
Ok, let's forget pavelo6543 and take myself as an example, I am a programmer with over 40! years experience in a lot of languages, not only third generation languages, and in the past week I went from wondering to annoying to dissapointment.
And that really makes me very sad. People who came up and implemented DataTables do not deserve dissapointment.
Back to 'my first table'. It has a colgroup with columns. These columns have a class where the width is specified. But DataTables thought different and for some reason changed the widths.
Hang on, there is an "autoWidth" option which I set to 'false'. Yes, as by now expected, it didn't work. Let's search the forum: colgroup question. What?? ALL answers were about rowgroup, not colgroup or col.
And THAT. my dear Alan. is precisely what pavelo6543 was talking about.
Kind regards,
not-a-newbie programmer-and-still-stuck EEF
PS. still don't know which way to go regarding the column widths; no documentation :-(
Hi pavelo6543,
What is right now your biggest 'programming-problem'?
Maybe the lame one can help the blind one ;-)
Eef
Guys, I tend to share Allan's view. I think it doesn't make sense for a Java Script newbie to immediately get started with data tables - even though I did it myself. But it was very cumbersome and I don't recommend it.
While the general coding examples are more or less ok I do miss more code examples for each of the api-functions.
For example if you take a look at the updated documentation of "dependent"
https://editor.datatables.net/reference/api/dependent()
you'll find this:
"The function may return:
An object using the JSON format discussed above for updating the form.
A Promise. When the Promise is resolved an object using the JSON format discussed above for updated the form can be passed into the resolving function (note this requires Editor 1.8 or newer).
No value. In this case it is expected (although not required) that the callback function passed in as the third parameter to the function will be used to update the form."
The "Promise" is new since Editor 1.8. But there is not a single code example for using dependent with a promise! And I could bring up many other cases where basic examples are missing.
It would be a great enhancement if this could be improved. I wouldn't mind paying 100% more for an Editor license if there were coding examples for each and every use case.
I don't think Allan needs to be defended here, however, my experience has been 180 degrees different.
When I started using datatables, I had almost zero javascript knowledge. I had been developing with PHP for over 15 years, however, never bothered to learn any js.
Yes, it took a while to "get it". I expected that, being very inexperienced. I did not expect Allan to teach me js. I did ask a lot of very pointed questions when I found myself not understanding certain things. Allan went out of his way to assist.
I do not feel that I am any kind of good js developer, still learning after using datatables for 5 years.
I was able to build a couple very robust apps that depend on datatables in that 5 years.
If you aren't getting something, ask. Allan and Colin will most certainly point you in the right direction.
"If you aren't getting something, ask. Allan and Colin will most certainly point you in the right direction."
Similar to INDYMX, I don't consider myself an expert but with searches and a few questions I have implemented DataTables that get data via Ajax calls, setup child rows for expanding information and even jumped into using the experimental plug-in SearchPanes.
While any documentation is subject to improvements, I feel as though the examples provided in just about every use case provide what JavaScript, HTML, CSS is needed to produce. With it being up to me to bring that into my own setup.
Could there be a more "step by step" type of guide, sure of course. But the inclusion of that related to everything from JavaScript and JQuery to Bootstrap and Foundation would make this massive without even mentioning extensions and plug-ins.
I wouldn't go to a car dealership to buy a car without knowing how to drive. Point being there is always something to be learned before you jump into using many libraries out there... and because your experience may differ from many others, any road blocks you have are based on that.
The community here provides great support and for a free tool, having the developer here answering questions and interacting is always appreciated.
Just my two cents...
Frank
@pavelo6543, i understood your frustration, trust me i gone through the same and struggled. Trust me lot of times you get disappointment.
I manage to get my app up and running, and still learning.
Apology in advance about my following lines:
Few things might be of any help to you.
Search video series for the following and try to learn, it needs atleast 25 hours each, depending on your understanding of technology.
a. Bootstrap,
b. Jquery
c. PHP
if you still got some issues, try to find an instructor for jquery, bootstrap and PHP. Its very easy to say but quite difficult to achieve.
Only your hard work and dedication can help you to overcome. Please note: It is impossible to learn everything in one go. If you get some sort of understanding for the above. you are good to go.
If you want any help, please feel free to contact me.
Note: Initially i was feeling the same and having affect on family life for disappointments. But I overcome using the above technique.
@rf1234 : I agree with you to some extend, some documentation is hard to follow, I am confident Allan would look into it. Trust me, he personally wrote to me twice.
Apologies once again if I said anything wrong.
Salman.
Hey Salman, I have no issues with Allan at all. You probably can't do more at the current license price. Hence my suggestion to pay more for an enhanced documentation with coding examples for every use case ...